<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1421</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/1/99 3:35:57 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, December 1 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1421<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
"Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
RE: Different Technologies<BR>
Re: Police ranks<BR>
Re: Police Career<BR>
Bribery Skill<BR>
Bribery Skill<BR>
GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
Re:  Low TL Medicines<BR>
Re: Different Technologies<BR>
RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:03:50 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
From: Bob Sanders <bsanders@amghome.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Reading the ship designs using solar sails, and looking at FF&S, Gurps,<BR>
etc.<BR>
> I have some questions that has always bothered me about Traveller, and<BR>
would<BR>
> like to get some ideas from the crowd.  Why is it that every race in the<BR>
> Traveller universe uses the same technology?<BR>
<BR>
It's mainly because the wonder technologies of Traveller (contra-gravity,<BR>
reactionless thrusters and small fusion power plants specifically) eliminate<BR>
any and all competition. They are also cheap enough to be really pervasive<BR>
in the Third Imperium setting.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm in the same boat as you. It becomes a real problem when<BR>
you're designing ships and vehicles because there's no reason not to use<BR>
those technologies. As a result, two ships of the exact same size built by<BR>
different cultures will tend to be, at least functionally, *exactly* the<BR>
same. That may work for other people, but it doesn't for me. What's the<BR>
point of visiting strange new worlds and civilizations if they're all going<BR>
to be exactly the same?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:07:58 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
<BR>
.001 kiloton?  why not just drop a WWII bomb?<BR>
<BR>
This is certainly not in the planet busting category although it might stop<BR>
an armored fighting vehicle.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Bont <felix@felixcafe.com><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 4:08 PM<BR>
Subject: Deadfall Ordnance<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
With the discussion of Dead-Fall Ordnance going on on the<BR>
GT:Navy playtest group, I got to thinking about Babylon 5 and the<BR>
weapons that the Shadows (or was it the Vorlons ...) used to kill<BR>
planets.  They simply dropped large chunks of streamlined metal<BR>
through the atmosphere and the concussion was enough to<BR>
penetrate the crust and break the planet up from inside.<BR>
<BR>
Well, here is a 6 cf, Radically Streamlined, Highly Armored Dead-<BR>
Fall missile.  It has limited manuevering capability, just enough to<BR>
slow it down for reentry so aerobraking is not necessary.  You just<BR>
drop it from orbit and when it hits, it does massive amounts of<BR>
damage (5dx2000 (2) ... more than a 0.0001 kiloton MicroNuke and<BR>
almost as much as a 0.001 kiloton).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 09:03:50 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Glen asked:<BR>
>>allegory and morality. For example in the Chronicles<BR>
>>of Narnia the lion Aslan is a direct representative<BR>
>>of Jesus Christ. (And yeas that's probably where the<BR>
>>name Aslan came from for the Traveller race.)<BR>
><BR>
>I thought we'd concluded that "aslan" was the Turkish<BR>
>word for "lion."<BR>
<BR>
It *is* the Turkish word for lion, which is where Lewis got it from.<BR>
<BR>
What we (on the TML) thought was that Marc (or J Andrew Keith - BTW, who wrote<BR>
"Contact! The Aslan" anyway??) either (a) knows Turkish and therefore used the<BR>
same source, or (b) knew the Narnia books and took it from there.<BR>
<BR>
What we (on the TML) concluded as an ObTravRef was that the first humans who met<BR>
the Aslan were of Turkish descent!!<BR>
<BR>
>>Or "Surprised By Joy", by C.S. Lewis, a Sci-Fi writer and infamous atheist.<BR>
>><BR>
>>- -Crusty<BR>
><BR>
>One assumes you mean Wyndham Lewis, rather than the infamous Christian C.S.<BR>
>Lewis?<BR>
<BR>
I know sarcasm is difficult to detect in textual form, but I think "Crusty" was<BR>
just clowning around - don't you?  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:21:34 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Percussive Maintenance<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I had an old B/W Telly once, that used to go blank on the screen<BR>
> periodically. I found that three firm but gentle taps on the centre of the<BR>
> screen with the back of a teaspoon worked wonders... you just need strong<BR>
> nerves at times.<BR>
<BR>
Exaxtly three taps, you say?  Did you have to mention anything about the<BR>
widow's son?<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:29:54 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
Bob Sanders writes:<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com> who wrote:<BR>
>>One fundamental reason that everyone uses the same technology<BR>
>>is that the laws of physics are the same for all players.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I agree, but we also know that many roads can get you to the<BR>
>same destination.  ForEx. look at the many different types of<BR>
>power generation plants in the world.  Gas, coal, nuke, solar,<BR>
>wind, etc... they are all optimized (the best they can be at<BR>
>existing technology) for their function. However they all still<BR>
>provide power.  That doesn't answer my question of how the<BR>
>different races all developed the same solution to the<BR>
>engineering problem produced by space travel.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
	Just my Cr 0.02: There are differences in power generating<BR>
	plants around Terra, but most of these are either minor<BR>
	variations on the same technology, or based on resources<BR>
	that vary considerably in availability.  It could also be<BR>
	argued that TL differences contribute.  Nevertheless, how<BR>
	many different kinds of cars are there?  Sure, they may<BR>
	look different (actually, they mostly all look the same to<BR>
	me), and a mechanic might take a while figuring out the<BR>
	details of some foreign cars, but almost all of them use<BR>
	metal frames, rubber tires, and internal combustion<BR>
	engines.  That despite the wide range in environments in<BR>
	which these vehicles must operate.<BR>
<BR>
	An interstellar civilization is, IMHO, unlikely<BR>
	to have drastically different resources available than <BR>
	another such civilization.  There are probably many<BR>
	minor variations on power plant design, but I expect that<BR>
	even in the Imperium.  Heavier, more reliable designs<BR>
	might be popular for stations/planetside; light, low-power<BR>
	designs for mobile bases; light, expensive, high-power<BR>
	designs for starships, etc.  I could see some races putting<BR>
	more emphasis on reliability and having heavier power plants,<BR>
	but they would probably still be fusion plants and probably<BR>
	not unlike some models that would be familiar to an Imperial<BR>
	engineer.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:31:42 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police ranks<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 05:01:33 -0500 (EST),<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>Chris said:<BR>
>>>"Commissioner of Police", since there is no monarch to receive a commission<BR>
>>>from.<BR>
<BR>
>>Anyhow, we *do* have Commissioners here in America. In Gotham City there's<BR>
>>Commissioner Gordon (he should be hitting retirement any day now).<BR>
<BR>
>Doh! I should be shot for forgetting him! I was just going off Jeff's comments,<BR>
>and not actually *thinking*.<BR>
<BR>
>Wasn't "The Commish" set in the suburbs? Different jurisdiction from the city<BR>
>beat? Jeff, help!?!<BR>
<BR>
Don't know about the setting for the show, but in the NYC Metro<BR>
Area, each municipality has its own PD, separate from NYC proper.<BR>
In Detroit, there seems to be a slightly different arrangement,<BR>
based on my understanding of the post that described that area,<BR>
and I suspect that Los Angeles is Yet Another Model.<BR>
<BR>
In addition, don't overlook the fact that there may be<BR>
_overlapping_ jurisdictions with multiple departments, and not<BR>
just city-contained-in-state-type of overlap - going back to NYC,<BR>
we have the following:<BR>
<BR>
New York City Police Department: Jurisdiction within the legally<BR>
defined boundaries of the incorporated City of New York<BR>
<BR>
New York State Parks Police: Jurisdiction within all State Parks,<BR>
including those within NYC.<BR>
<BR>
MTA Railroad Police: Jurisdiction on the property of the<BR>
railroads operated by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority<BR>
(of NY State) - Metro-North Commuter Railroad and Long Island<BR>
Railroad.<BR>
<BR>
New York City Sanitation Police: Jurisdiction over waste-disposal<BR>
violations within the legally defined boundaries of the<BR>
incorporated City of New York.<BR>
<BR>
New York City Environmental Police: Jurisdiction over New York<BR>
City watershed and water supply protection.  This includes over<BR>
the reservoirs upstate that serve the City.<BR>
<BR>
Up until a couple of years ago, there was also:<BR>
<BR>
New York City Housing Police Department: Jurisdiction within<BR>
housing projects owned or operated by the City of New York.<BR>
<BR>
New York City Transit Police Department: Jurisdiction within the<BR>
New York City public transportation system (busses, subways, and<BR>
Staten Island Rapid Transit).<BR>
<BR>
Both of the latter agencies were merged into the NYCPD a couple<BR>
of years ago.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 17:34:25 -0500<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Police Career<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999 05:01:33 -0500 (EST), shadow@krypton.rain.com<BR>
(Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>>     Bomb Squad (Bomb & Explosive Ordnance Disposal)<BR>
<BR>
>> Munitions and Special Package Division.  Also responsible for<BR>
>> non-explosive devices of mass effect (e.g., poison gas emitters).<BR>
<BR>
>And nukes, as terrorists *will* be able to get them, given how "common"<BR>
>the missile rules require them to be. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Yes - but I sort of figured that a 'nuke' would be explosive, and<BR>
so well within the definition of 'bomb' or 'explosive ordinance'.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, here's a lovely thought. Just imagaine what a bunch of terrorists<BR>
>with a nuclear damper could do. Set it to speed up decay and aim it at<BR>
>those nice granite government buildings. <BR>
<BR>
So, when are you going to write the adventure?<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:38:26 -0600<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
Subject: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a skill<BR>
in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!?  Is it like electronics<BR>
or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is actually<BR>
involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a<BR>
separate skill!  I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful at<BR>
bribery. Any opinions out there?<BR>
<BR>
Alex<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:38:26 -0600<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
Subject: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a skill<BR>
in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!?  Is it like electronics<BR>
or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is actually<BR>
involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a<BR>
separate skill!  I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful at<BR>
bribery. Any opinions out there?<BR>
<BR>
Alex<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:24:47 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)<BR>
<BR>
>>Here is a 'corrected' version of the Goryo. Whether this is possible<BR>
>>without a larger sail than specified in GS/3 is debatable. This fits the<BR>
>>rules, but whether the rules fit reality...<BR>
><BR>
>A 1-G solar-sail powered craft that is only about 33% (by mass) sail?<BR>
>Not even remotely plausible with any concievable technology; the formulae<BR>
>(or your interpretation of them) must be messed up. Could you post the<BR>
>exact formula from GS/3?<BR>
<BR>
First off, my earlier post with equations is wrong. Never to math on an<BR>
empty stomach, after an 18-hour day. :-/<BR>
<BR>
The problem is with GS3/e, I think.<BR>
<BR>
A light sail module takes up one space. At GTL8 it has an area of 15 sq<BR>
miles, at GTL9+ an area of 240 sq miles.  It provides 10 tons of thrust at<BR>
GTL8, 160 tons of thrust at GTL9+.  Mass is 50 tons at all tech levels.<BR>
<BR>
Another try at the equations:<BR>
<BR>
Force = 2 x Power / lightspeed		NOTE: assumes a perfect reflector<BR>
<BR>
The solar power constant for Earth (the baseline GS3/e uses) is 1400 Watts<BR>
per square metre. Assuming a square mile (1600 m x 1600 m) the equation<BR>
becomes:<BR>
<BR>
Force = 2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400 / 300,000,000<BR>
<BR>
This will be in Newtons per square mile.<BR>
<BR>
(Please check the next bit for boneheaded math error, because I hate<BR>
conversions and aren't that good at them.)<BR>
<BR>
To convert Newtons to tonnes-force, I used F=ma where m=1000kg and<BR>
a=9.81m/s/s, to get:<BR>
<BR>
1 tonne-force = 981 N<BR>
<BR>
Thus:<BR>
<BR>
Force = (2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400) / (300,000,000 x 981)<BR>
<BR>
Finally, there are 0.907 tonnes in a ton, therefore I get:<BR>
<BR>
Force = (2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400) / (300,000,000 x 981 x 0.907)	NOTE: in<BR>
tons/sq mile<BR>
<BR>
Crunching the numbers (I kept them whole to avoid dumb transcription<BR>
errors), this is:<BR>
<BR>
Force = .02685347213 tons/square mile.<BR>
<BR>
Thus, for the 15 square mile sail I get 0.4 tons thrust, while for the 240<BR>
square mile sail I get 6.4 tons.<BR>
<BR>
Have I made any boneheaded mistakes? Please let me know, so I ccan update<BR>
GT Shipyard to create realistic lightsails.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:37:56 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
>That's the point, it's *not* the solar energy, it's the solar *wind*.<BR>
<BR>
"The solar wind plays no part in solar sailing; it's important to<BR>
understand this from the start. The solar sail operates on sunlight<BR>
pressure - the pressure produced by light when it "bounces off" a mirror.<BR>
This force is 1,000 to 10,000 times greater than that of the solar wind,<BR>
and while there are many analogs between terrestrial sailing and solar<BR>
sailing, we must disabuse ourselves of the idea that the solar wind can<BR>
propel us through space."<BR>
<BR>
p.17 "Starsailing: Solar Sails and Interstellar Travel" by Louis Freidman<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Right. now stop and consider this. 2.2e14 m^2 for sail area. If that<BR>
>sail weighs a *miilgram* per square meter, that makes it mass 2.2e11<BR>
>kg. or 2.2e8 *tons*. That sail with a 145.1 tonne thrust masses 220<BR>
>*million* tonnes. 145.1/220e6 = 660 one-billionths of a g accel.<BR>
><BR>
>> According to GS/3, the sail is 240 square miles per space. I see that I<BR>
>> forgot to multiply the thrust by 0.5 (for the half space) but GS/3 lists<BR>
>> the thrust as 160 tons/space.<BR>
><BR>
>> I think we've found an errata in GS/3.<BR>
><BR>
>Major league. Alo note my figures above regarding the *mass* of the<BR>
>sail as it relates to area.<BR>
<BR>
True, I was ignoring that. I suppose that as a lower limit on mass we could<BR>
assume a sheet a single molecule thick, and see what that gives for mass.<BR>
If it's reasonable, then I think we could handwave some form of "molecular<BR>
bonding" to get the material at upper-end tech levels. Of course, the first<BR>
cloud of thin gas and your sail would be ruined...  If even a single<BR>
molecule sheet is too massive, then we've established a definative<BR>
'impossible'.<BR>
<BR>
(As a matter of principle, I dislike the word "impossible" when applied to<BR>
engineering.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:40:46 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Iridium-class Solar Yacht (GTL12) - corrected<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> A 'corrected' version of the Iridium. Whether sails like this are possible<BR>
>> is up for grabs. In particular, I doubt this thrust is available in the<BR>
>> specified sail size (360 sq mi). I'll reality-check the GS/3 rules tomorrow.<BR>
><BR>
>360 mi^2 = ~932 km^2<BR>
><BR>
>And it looks like your table makes the mass 68.0 (tonnes?).<BR>
<BR>
Tonnes. I'm a Canadian.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Which gives the sails a mass of ~73 *micrograms*/m^2. Yeesh!<BR>
><BR>
>217.7 tonnes thrust?<BR>
><BR>
>That gives ~233 micrograms of thrust per m^2.<BR>
><BR>
>times 9.8 should give us Newtons. 2.29e-3 N/m^2<BR>
><BR>
>> Looking at page 21 of "Starsailing" (by Freidman), I see that F=2P/c<BR>
>> (force, power, speed of light).<BR>
><BR>
>Therefore:<BR>
><BR>
>P=F*c/2<BR>
><BR>
>P= 2.29e-3*3.8/2<BR>
>P= 343e3 W<BR>
><BR>
>That's 343 kW/m^2!<BR>
><BR>
>Sheesh! Solar flux at 1 AU is abou *1* kW/m^2<BR>
><BR>
>Well, we've found the error...<BR>
<BR>
1.4 kW/m^2<BR>
<BR>
But that's a mere quibble compared to 343 kW/m^2.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 17:48:06 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
>Robert Prior writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Then fire off a letter to SJG and get GURPS space errataed, because that's<BR>
>> where I pulled the numbers from. Just a simple thrust/mass=acceleration<BR>
>> calculation.<BR>
><BR>
>I think you got the weight wrong -- a one-space sail module is 50T, 50<BR>
>MCr, 160T thrust.  I think GURPS Space may have also gotten it wrong, it<BR>
>has 240x the thrust of a similar module designed with VE2.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I got the thrust wrong. I decided to code with half-size sails,<BR>
so I could have an integer number of modules. I added a listing of sail<BR>
area to alert people (not that these will be big items).<BR>
<BR>
>> I can see no reason why a light sail couldn't be a high-acceleration<BR>
>> vessel, assuming that the sail was big enough. GS/3 doesn't give sizes, but<BR>
>> I suppose you could do a backwards calculation from the thrust and average<BR>
>> solar energy in earth orbit.<BR>
><BR>
>Actually, it does give a size, and requires an energy density of 400<BR>
>kW/m^2 to reach the listed acceleration.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I found that the next time I opened the book.<BR>
<BR>
Still, we've definately discovered an errata for GS3/e.  I suggest claiming<BR>
a group credit and free passes to the next Mora Challenge Race.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:11:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <tml@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
I would make the following distinction. Streetwise may be useful for the<BR>
small bribes you might need to pay to get the police to look the other way<BR>
when you try to sell that cargo of widgets which don't quite meet local<BR>
health and safety standards. Bribery is useful when you are trying to<BR>
convince an Imperial official that *your* shipyard should get that<BR>
multi-zillion credit contract. In between, it's a judgement call.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Alex Ingram <ingram@airmail.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Cc: <traveller@mpgn.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:38 PM<BR>
Subject: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a<BR>
skill<BR>
> in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!?  Is it like<BR>
electronics<BR>
> or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience is<BR>
actually<BR>
> involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, but not as a<BR>
> separate skill!  I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be successful<BR>
at<BR>
> bribery. Any opinions out there?<BR>
><BR>
> Alex<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:21:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GS3/3 Solar Sails (was: Goryo-class Medium Fighter (GTL9) - corrected)<BR>
<BR>
Robert Prior writes:<BR>
<BR>
> A light sail module takes up one space. At GTL8 it has an area of 15 sq<BR>
> miles, at GTL9+ an area of 240 sq miles.  It provides 10 tons of thrust at<BR>
> GTL8, 160 tons of thrust at GTL9+.  Mass is 50 tons at all tech levels.<BR>
<BR>
Note that in GVE2 the thrust is 5.26 lb/square mile (9e-6 newtons/square meter) or 0.63 tons for the above sail.  Assuming a solar flux of 1,400 watts/square meter the actual value is 9.3e-6 newtons/m^2, which is reasonable enough.<BR>
> <BR>
> Another try at the equations:<BR>
> <BR>
> Force = 2 x Power / lightspeed          NOTE: assumes a perfect reflector<BR>
> <BR>
> The solar power constant for Earth (the baseline GS3/e uses) is 1400 Watts<BR>
> per square metre. Assuming a square mile (1600 m x 1600 m) the equation<BR>
> becomes:<BR>
> <BR>
> Force = 2 x 1600 x 1600 x 1400 / 300,000,000<BR>
1609 meters, but close enough.<BR>
> <BR>
> This will be in Newtons per square mile.<BR>
> <BR>
> (Please check the next bit for boneheaded math error, because I hate<BR>
> conversions and aren't that good at them.)<BR>
> <BR>
> To convert Newtons to tonnes-force, I used F=ma where m=1000kg and<BR>
> a=9.81m/s/s, to get:<BR>
<BR>
Bear in mind that we're talking US tons, not tonnes, and thus, it is 8900 newtons/ton.<BR>
<BR>
> Have I made any boneheaded mistakes? Please let me know, so I ccan update<BR>
> GT Shipyard to create realistic lightsails.<BR>
<BR>
Factor of 10 error in newtons/ton.  Also, note:<BR>
A 1-space (50T) sail is 250 square miles with GVE2.  Thrust is 0.66T.  Maximum area is 360,000 square miles (1440 modules).<BR>
A 1-space (490T) TL-8 sail is 15 square miles with a thrust of 0.038T (it has marginally lower thrust); maximum area is 3,600 square miles (240 modules)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:11:31<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
At 09:03 AM 12/2/1999 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What we (on the TML) concluded as an ObTravRef was that the first humans who <BR>
>met the Aslan were of Turkish descent!!<BR>
<BR>
The first humans who *survived* meeting the Aslan..<BR>
<BR>
Sudden thought.. the whole Aslan copied the jump-drive thing was written by<BR>
Marc, but showed up in Travellers' Digest.. is it still canonical?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:16:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Bribery Skill<BR>
<BR>
At 04:38 PM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>In a recent discussion the subject of Bribery came up. I don't use it as a <BR>
>skill in MTU. How difficult is it to bribe someone anyway?!?  Is it like <BR>
>electronics or medical, or even gun combat? How much training or experience <BR>
>is actually involved to advance to a higher level. I accept it as a task, <BR>
>but not as a separate skill!  I assume that anyone with Streetwise would be <BR>
>successful at bribery. Any opinions out there?<BR>
<BR>
Bribery is knowing who to bribe, how to pass it along, and what levels of<BR>
squeeze are needed for any given situation.  It differs slightly from<BR>
Streetwise in that many "legitimate" citizens might by in a situation where<BR>
bribery becomes a part of daily life.  (Anybody here every get pulled over<BR>
by the Sonora State Police?  A US $10 bill, discreetly passed, and suddenly<BR>
the officer forgets he ever saw you or your car.)<BR>
<BR>
People who work in heavily mob-controlled industries, for example, might<BR>
have high levels of Bribery to know how much of a kick back the family<BR>
gets, and how to launder it.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:21:00<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
At 01:55 PM 12/1/1999 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>That's odd...I thought 'Scotland Yard' was the HQ of your equivalent of<BR>
>the FBI, a national police force...Whatever they're called...I've only<BR>
>heard them referred to as 'Scotland Yard'.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, my experience comes from watching things like 'Cracker' and<BR>
>suchlike on PBS and A&E, and a pile of mysteries...<BR>
<BR>
Ah, the perils of television.. every summer San Francisco gets planeloads<BR>
of tourist in shorts and t-shirts, who proceed to develop hypothermia while<BR>
waiting for cable cars.<BR>
<BR>
Y'see they've seen "Baywatch", which is filmed in California, so they know<BR>
what the weather is going to be like...<BR>
<BR>
"The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer day in San Francisco."<BR>
						-Mark Twain<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:17:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re:  Low TL Medicines<BR>
<BR>
On 1 Dec 99, at 22:42, Robert O'Connor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Glen Goffin and Rupert Boleyn wrote :-<BR>
> > > Of course, you won't get drowsy at all if you don't<BR>
> > > take anti-histamines.  Acupuncture, vitamin C, and<BR>
> > > water all help clear the sinuses with no side effects.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > However this doesn't (unless your acupuncturist (?) is a whole lot<BR>
> > better than the one I tried) help much with hayfever. For that<BR>
> > antihistamines or, more recently, steriods are the way to go.<BR>
> <BR>
> Current evidence-based treatment for sinusitis :-<BR>
> - a non-sedating antihistamine (e.g. loratidine) ;<BR>
> - a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (e.g. paracetamol/acetaminophen<BR>
> or ibuprofen) ; and - don't blow your nose - recent experiments suggest<BR>
> that this merely inoculates the sinuses with the causative virii/whatever.<BR>
> (You can generate pressures in excess of 200mmHg when nose-blowing ; this<BR>
> is not to be sneezed or coughed at!).<BR>
<BR>
My father reckons that asprin works for him, too.<BR>
<BR>
> Steroids for sinusitis are a bit of overkill, but they would work.<BR>
<BR>
Here in NZ there's a pharmacy only (until recently prescription only) <BR>
nasal spray that my doctor told me was a steriod (shortly before <BR>
spending five minutes reassuring me that it wasn't like all those <BR>
"evil" steriods). It's called Beconase and seems to have Beclomethasone <BR>
Dipropionate as its active component.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:34:29 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Different Technologies<BR>
<BR>
At 16:50 -0500 1/12/99, Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The only situation in which you will have competing technologies <BR>
>like that is when there are two or more technologies which are <BR>
>roughly equal, or which one or another group is philosophically <BR>
>opposed to using.  In many cases, the 'standard' systems are just <BR>
>plain _better_ than any competing technology.<BR>
<BR>
Except in the case of Windows <g, d, r> or Betamax.<BR>
<BR>
Dom ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 22:42:41 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
At 16:50 -0500 1/12/99, "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com> wrote:<BR>
>In the UK we have a number  of  county  and  metropolitan  police<BR>
>forces who all cooperate with each other fairly well, and who use<BR>
>a central crime database  called  the  Police  National  Computer<BR>
>(enquiries to which are called PNC checks).  Within these  police<BR>
>forces there are various specialised units  ...  Special  Branch,<BR>
>T-Branch (anti-terrorist), the  Vice  Squad,  the  infamous  West<BR>
>Midlands Serious Crime  squad,  the  Serious  Fraud  Office,  the<BR>
>Complaints Investigation Branch, Criminal Investigation Division,<BR>
>the Transport Police (for railways), etc.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting aside - the Atomic Energy Police in the UK are one of the <BR>
few police forces who regularly carry weapons, those and the airport <BR>
police.<BR>
<BR>
>In addition  there  is<BR>
>Customs & Excise ... mostly visible at seaports and airports, but<BR>
>able to pursue investigations anywhere in the  country.  Finally,<BR>
<BR>
And those investigations tend to work on the principle that you're <BR>
guilty until proven innocent ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Someone else asked about 'Scotland Yard' - New Scotland Yard is the <BR>
HQ of the Metropolitan Police (London's Police force)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1421<BR>
***********************************<BR>
<BR>
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".<BR>
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>
"local-traveller":<BR>
<BR>
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>
<BR>
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>
in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>
<BR>
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR>
</XMP></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0f0f0f" BACK="#fffffe" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<BR>
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>
Return-Path: <owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Received: from  rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (vx) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:35:56 -0500<BR>
Received: from  lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v65.4) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:35:45 -0500<BR>
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA78678;<BR>
	Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:34:09 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:33:51 -0500<BR>
Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA78608<BR>
	for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:33:51 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 18:33:51 -0500 (EST)<BR>
Message-Id: <199912012333.SAA78608@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1421<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>
